Spawning New Developers

Sometimes, it just takes too long to attract new developers to the project so we tried spawning them.  Now that I look back at it, it might have actually been faster to just do it this way all along.  Its very simple, take a male and a female developer, and then mix some genetic code.  Bake in the womb for 9 months, and then train the new little nurseling to like wograld development.  Who knows though, it might not actually work as well as I hoped, because he already fusses during lectures about free software at a certain time of day.
Another problem with this though, is preparing for his arrival took a lot of time away from working on the project.  I also put my web cartoon at www.jastiv.com as a higher priority than working directly on the project, partly because I could see measurable progress every time I worked on it, and also because I ended up making graphics for the web cartoon anyway I could reuse in the game.  The lead programmer has continued to make several commits, but I've really not written much in this space in a while. 

jwogclnt now connects to the sever but..

I figured out what was holding development up.  We were having some trouble importing the project into netbeans until I figured it out. Unit tests on jxclnt do not work in netbeans.  The orginal developer of jxclnt suggested using Intelej IDEA instead.  So I tried that.

We found some bug with the server as well, probably better not to blog about it here. 


so now, the new client connects to the sever, but does not display the tiles yet properly.  I hope to have that fixxed in the next few days.

Meanwhile, I wonder if our CVS version control is holding us up.  One of the things that concerned me is sourceforge is moving to the allura platform.  At first I worried CVS would not be supported, but it looks like it will be supported on allura.  Also, later versions of netbeans require you to download a plugin for CVS rather than it coming out of the box.



I've been looking at distributed version control systems, both git and mercurial are under consideration.  At first I was kind of leaning towards git, but it looks like mercurial is easier to use, espeacily for windows users, probably the main platform with lots of gamers who want to be developers. Of course the server probably does not work all that well on windows, but I havn't really tried it, not being a windows user myself.  One of the reasons I choose a java client is the fact it will just work regardless of the underlying platform os.

The thing I don't really like about mercurial, is it is written in python. Python is a fast moving language that changes to fast, so I worry if its going to break future releases, although I don't really think that's highly likely as I would think for smaller projects.

Java User Interface Development Woes

What is holding up the project? The User Interface development. The real problem is none of the project team members want to do it. I've written my share of hello world in Java, I even made some bad graphical applications with it in netbeans, but figuring out how to put the user interface in game together has proven to be more of a challenge than that. I looked at the Java User Interface for crossfire. It has all these folders and stuff. I don't know what all those files do and I'm having a hard time following the code to figure out what I need to change to make it work with Wograld.

Crossfire has had several revisions since Wograld split off from it. Wograld has also had several revisions since that time, so it would consist of changing the things that are different so it works with wograld. One thing, is I don't have a metaserver. I would find it difficult to justify having a metaserver when no one wants to play a buggy pre-alpha with missing artwork and most of the awful crossfire gameplay (I mean there is a reason that usually I never see more than four players logged onto crossfire right?)
I don't think the game is even really ready for alpha yet with the amount of user interface work that needs to be done.

I've considered trying to recruit project team members again, but until its really playable, that just seems like a dead end. After all, no matter how good of an artist you are, programmers do not want to work on your game until you show them the code compiling and running with a nice user interface. I hate how programers make artists feel like they are less important. If programmers cared more about artists and what they want maybe we would not still be having these stupid debates about intellectual property and artists would be making money on free culture works all over the place. Sorry, I've been getting into a rant, but its the end of the year and I hoped that the Java User Interface would be done by now.

Iso Crossfire

I've been working on the artwork quite a bit. I recently uploaded some new marble tiles. I also went and made a whole bunch of chairs a couple days ago. I will be finishing them from the other reversed perspective and uploading them soon. I also worked some on the classes.

I always hated the fact that it feels like I am working on iso-crossfire, and not the Wograld project that I really want. This game has my new graphics, and a new, yet lousy, user interface. Yet I can't help feeling like I am only playing crossfire in 45 degree isometric. That is because none of the game mechanics have changed including ones I hate, such a experience loss, dying from getting hit with a normal swinging wooden door, stat loss diseases everywhere, and a combat system that seem to consist of run into things and watch them die. At least they die relatively quickly compared to some boring games, so you get a chance to go through the exciting loot.

Well, horror of horrors, my wonderful lead developer actually likes that something like iso-crossfire exists. So before we fix any of the glaring game mechanic problems, take out the extra races from the start area and add a male/female of each of orc, human elf and undead, we have to trudge through and actually fork our own project into a useless, unremarkable, not in demand game. After all, if I really wanted to play crossfire, I would just play it, and not this abomination, halfway between crossfire and Wograld with missing graphics.

I'm not quite sure what is the point of useless sourceforge projects and dead branches. Frankly, I think it is a waste of disk space. After all, given a choice between Wograld and iso-crossfire, I would gladly chose Wograld. In fact, for years thinking about how I would actually have to play test some of my changes using the horrid Crossfire kept me from working more on Wograld.

Developers arn't easy to come by though, so if he wants to waste some time forking the project so what. I wonder if that is what will happen to most game projects eventually, there will be the number of game projects >= the number of game developers on the project with all the forks.
Happy forking and fork you!

Fixxed the Segfaults... BUT

Well, the segfaults are fixed. At least I think they are as fixed as a cat after neutering. As fixed as a eunuch programmer (like instead of a unix programmer with the stereotypical neck-beard)
Anyway, enough with the stupid puns. The user interface for the map editor still sucks dangling donkey parts. You still can't click on things in the pick maps and expect them to show up in the object window of the map-editor. The co-ordinates are all off. Furthermore, all the items in the pick-maps do not display properly. I tried messing with them again a couple days ago.
Instead of fixing the user interface however, my wonderful lead programmer decides to add a bunch of stuff that is in the wrong perspective and the wrong size, into the cvs arch folder. These new arches are from other crossfire forks. I told him he does not need to do that. When I saw what he was starting to do, I got horrified. Except he doesn't use the cvs add command. Now his folder is littered up with a bunch of ? marks in front of the new arches. He really should not have done that. Only one more day until my other programmer comes back from vacation. Then we really won't get any work done because she will be too busy obsessing on cleaning and telling our lead programmer what a lousy job he does wiping the floor and taking out the trash.

I started working on my web comic again and making new 45 degree 64x64 and 64x128 tile objects that we can hopefully add once lead programmer stops trying to add stupid arches and fixes the map editor bugs.

I recently read about something called "programmer art". Apparently programmer art is when programmers do quick and dirty artwork to make demos of some software project. It looks really bad like they can't draw. In most cases, they probably can't, but it is more of a case they don't care how bad it looks. Our project suffers from the opposite problem. I feel like we have a lot of artist code. Code that is just in there to show off the awesomeness of our artwork. It seems like no one on this project really wants to work on the code, and would rather be doing art. You can't play a computer game without the code, however.

Who's Fault? Segfault

Sometimes I just get so frustrated with this project. I have been looking at the segfaults and trying to find out what is causing them. Just because I know what some x11 functions do, does not mean I have figured out how to fix the segfault errors. serpentshard fixed some of the other crash bugs, but the editor still looks as awful as ever. We never managed to change it so that it would allow you to select the proper area on the screen. The areas you select and input tiles into are still from the old maps. So, although it displays the new tile sets, when you click on them, it is mapped to the old way that things used to be arranged. I don't know how to describe it exactly. So, basically, it looks okay, but it acts like the tiles are still the old 32X32 square tiles.

Well, actually, if you want to see, just download the server with the map editor, wogedit from today's date or a bit earlier and see what I am complaining about her on the blog. If we could have fixed the tiles to begin with, we would not have this problem. I don't know why fixing it in the map editor became so hard. It just did.
I am not sure if the any of the segfaults are directly related to the major display user-interface problem that I described. Actually, one of them is not. If you left click in a box on the top of the editor. When you are over a tile, there is a top part of the editor that displays what is on the tile you clicked. (of course it maps the wrong tile) Then it segfaults on you. That is not nice. But it is what we are stuck with until we can figure out how to fix the code bugs. No one else wants to look at our buggy code, so we are stuck fixing it ourselves. I had thought that open source meant you could get better programmers to do you dirty work like fix major bugs, but I guess that is not how it works. Maybe my essay about keyboard monkeys seems a little naive now.

Bug hunting, the continuing story of gdb

Finding the bugs and using gdb is not so simple as it first seemed. First I tried to compile all those files with the -g option, but even after asking around, I could not get it to give me the exact line in the program where I was getting the segfault error. The lead programmer had not made any progress with it for several months. He is useless now, it seems, so I will have to do something I have never done before, find the bugs in wogedit, and fix them myself.
I ran some x11 tutorials in gdb. They work great, and gdb gives me the line number when I introduce bugs (I quickly found a way to add a segmentation fault bug to the x11 tutorial) . So it seems I am stuck looking at flags in the makefiles. For some reason, the flag FFLAGS, a flag that is supposed to be for the fortran compiler is where my -g flag is showing up. I thought it would give me the c flags instead, but it does not seem to be doing that. I wonder why the makefiles include it. I know this project still has strange bits of code I have not looked at yet, but as far as I know, it does not use any fortran. I don't even think I have this F77 compiler installed on my machine. I don't know anyone who uses fortran for anything nowadays.
So, I am reading up on autoconf, automake, and make in hopes that I can solve this mystery before I die of old age.

Artwork commit and gdb

Recently I did a big artwork commit to the project. So for those of you who wanted to see all the new tiles, you can go ahead and access the cvs and get the latest arch. (Yes, it is working on sourceforge for now, but who knows for how long) I also edited the admin install yet again. Please let me know if the directions for installing the server and client in linux are unclear.

Also I have been trying to learn gdb. For those who are unfamiliar gdb is the Gnu Debugger. I got tired of waiting for my knight in shining armor, my prince charming (well actually my evil wizard) to debug the code. So there are two major map editor bugs (possibly more) are still there to be found and fixed. They are

1. segmentation fault crash when you move a scroll bar

2. some of the tiles do not show up correctly, they appear to be blocked out by other tiles although this works perfectly in the client.
As always new contributors are welcomed.

Art Tiles = Project Motivation

While the editor bug is still there and taking a long time to find, at least I am making some progress in the game. I have been working on the art tiles. The new tiles are the 45 degree isometric perspective. While many of the tiles have already been replaced, some have not. Also, some of the old perspective tiles when converted to the new perspective do not look good, although they did not look good in the old perspective either.
Our lead programmer says that seeing the new tiles gives him motivation to sit down and find the bugs.
I went back to an old message forum to read my ancient post about recruiting Wograld developers. No one there was interested. Not only that, but someone commented that only insane masochist programmers would want to work on the project. That is the wrong idea. After all, masochism is one of the nine stupidities. So it seems that all over our developers already have the qualities nessessary to complete the fool quests in Wograld.

1) Indescretion. - this blog is prof of that.
2) Lust - I'm lusting after Wograld, I want it so bad.
3) Foolhardiness - Well, if this project kills me, my only hope is some other foolhardy adventurers follow in my footsteps.
4) Paranoia - lead programmer though someone was entering his house, but it is just the furnace.
5) Masochism - Wograld developers have already been labeled as Masochistic. Why else would we spend so much time on it.
6) Vengence - this is revenge for all those times that rpgs like Ultima Online and World of Warcraft did not live up to my standards.
7)Thievery - We copied the code from crossfire, not exactly thievery,
8) Humilation - We have humilated ourselves over and over trying to promote this pre-alpha project.
9) Skepticism - hmm, I don't believe in C programers, oh wait...

Squashed Bugs or Sqaushed Egos?

Every so often it gets tempting to start doing something else instead of the difficult Wograld project. Even to this day, I do not consider myself a very good programmer. Sure, I did some C programming, and I have written some text based programs, that were mostly made of other programs stuck together with the variables renamed. Unfortunately, when it comes to basic things like understanding how C reads and writes to files, as well as how to use the x11 libraries in the code, I still lack understanding. Instead, I have been relying heavily on my lead programmer, a man with an ego problem (his problem being a lack of ego rather than, like most programmers, having a giant ego) to fix the bugs.

He has been stuck for a long time on the editor bug.
The editor crashes when you use it and try to scroll down. Also, some of the tiles do not appear like they should, instead they blank out the other tiles when they try to appear on the screen. Instead of having my describe it to you, you should actually just download the latest cvs release, as well as the old crossfire maps, and test it out to see what I mean.
I would like to put the bug out there for others to solve, but I worry it will hurt his poor ego. I'm sure he does not want to read this blog where I talk about him and his problems with self esteem.

Nanowrimo

The whole of November was taken up by me writing a novel. www.nanowrimo.org The C++ group I was involved with got to chapter 7. After that, we kind of stopped. Something about chapter 7 in that book just got very hard all of a sudden, even though we seemed to be making progress prior to that. Well actually, each chapter just got harder and harder.

One nice thing about novel writing is you do not have to worry about having a project to large to do by yourself at all. I find that I can write a whole novels myself without any help from anyone else. I won the nano write, but I still have not finished the story, being as I got over the 50k needed to win, but my plot is not really more than halfway done. The story is about a web developer who has no social life, so she joins a cult.

I could talk more about my plotting problems here, but I think I will leave that for somewhere else, as I know not all game developers like books in the horror genre. My husband loves to read horror novels, but he would not like to see the horror stuff happen irl. So then I asked him. If you don't like it for real, then why do you read so much of it? He likes a lot of Stephan king, except for the dark tower series. I hope I did not fill up my book with too many descriptions of her dreams and nightmares. When I do the editing, my critics might insist I take that part out.

User Interface Progress

The new User interface code is being worked on, but still not ready to be committed to the cvs. It takes a while to figure out what all the things in x11 do to allow user interface options to occur. Serpentshard has already go the code going that opens and closes the buttons. It was suggested by several people to make the game take up the whole screen, and then have the windows pop over it rather than just having it take up 2/3 of the screen like I currently show in the mockup on the forums. I like this idea, but not being much of a programmer myself, I am not sure how that would be to implement. I know that some things are very hard to program.

One time I thought I would work on a voice recognition system for elderly people with dementia, so they would have a system that would talk to them and constantly answer the repetitive questions that they ask. But the software I tried would not even compile or run on my computer, so I realized I was in way over my head with the voice recognition thing. At least with this project I have been able to make progress.

Anyway, I am amazed at what the x11 libraries are capable of so far from what I have seen. I did not know it could do all that because I had not seen any prior programs written that had those features like that. The only thing missing so far is the custom widgets that I want to put in, such as my own buttons, and ideally my own scrollbars and containors. Basically, I want the custom artwork like most good looking games have that I am currently working on making now.

Grad school = project drain

Many people seem to enjoy going on to graduate school and getting a degree in something or other. I think, however, for others it simply represents a diversion, and not a pastime filled with excitement or enthusiasm.

I'm not enough of a fool to try and put myself through the grad school ordeal, especialy when I realized I lack the desire to even complete an undergraduate degree. The whole trouble with school seems to be that you could easily spend years trudging away at a subject you hate, only to find out that you have been educated for a job you hate even more, or that is non-existent. The road to hell is paved with hell, you do not go down some path for the reward at the end, and then find out it is not there. It is better to simply scrap the plans right at the beginning instead of investing years into the pursuit of your personal hell on earth.

If you do not know what interests you, why would you pursue a specific course of study in some specific direction in hopes of some return. The whole thing is absurd. You should know what you want, and not what you think you want before you get into the whole business. Trying to make money isn't enough of a reason for grad school when you do not have the interest to begin with. It would be better to start on something you know, like getting a job, rather than pursue schooling into a field you have no interest in.

Shell Scripts

The title of my post will be Shell Scripts, yet again. I am still learning the unix commands and how to put them together. It should be simple to write a script to systimatically go through all the wograld directories and delete the Makefile and Makefile.in that do not need to be there. I'm pretty sure now that it is only supposed to be Makefile.am in each directory. This is something I did not realize before. Also, I need to write a script that goes through every file and then replaces every instance of crossfire with wograld. I know that one is probably going to be a pain. How am I going to like it when every file asks me if it is okay to overwrite it. On the other hand, I do not see how else to do a true fork of the project, and I do not think doing every single line by hand would be less tedious, it would probably be more tedious. Even if I have to confirm every instance of mv, it would still be faster than replacing every instance of crossfire in every file with wograld by hand.
I would not be surprised though if I never figure it out or if it is 100 years before the shell script gets written. It just seems like something that is too complex for any mortal being to do. Ironically, neither of the other team members are capable of doing it even though both of them made a living in computers and programming. Shell scripters are probably pretty rare and value able.

Food on a CVS Book

A pristine book is a book that has not been read. That is my motto. Unfortunatly, some other people do not get it. If you need your books perfect, don't read them. They can look nice on a shelf and take up space. However, I do not believe that books should be used that way. I care about one thing and one thing only when I get books, that is the contents of the book.

One of our developers was complaining that her book had food all over it. I do not notice or care that books are not perfect. I do not get distracted by pencil marks, doodles, crumbs, fingerprints, blood smears etc on a book. In fact I like the fact that it feels well used and worn, Some how it gets me more involved in the material. When a book is perfect, it feels like it is a harder book to comprehend with more difficult material that no one has understood before. When it is old and worn out, it feels like territory other people have gone through, so I can always ask some one else about the material if I do not understand it. Also, the more I read a book and practice with it, the better I understand the text. That is probably why I always feel more comfortable with old books rather than new ones. The other nasty thing about new books is they are more likely to lead to paper cuts if you are not careful. Certain kinds of paper is worse at this than others, and not that the book has particularly sharp paper, but I have learned that I have to be careful with paper because it could hurt me.

What does this have to do with wograld project development? I realized that we did not know what version of the game we were using. Our lead developer said he fixed it so the crash bugs are gone, and it seems to work fine on my machine. However on our other developers Solaris system, the thing crashes just like it used to, not the same crash bug actually though, because it doesn't get as far as loading the maps that were not finished. It doesn't even get to scorn. Just walk a few feet and the whole thing crashes. I realize that we need some way to keep track of different version of the game, and using tags in CVS seems to be the way to go. I brought up subversion and how people think it is better, but that would require either waiting for the book or reading the pdf files, neither of the other people on the project are particularly interested in version control. It just seems like a nessesary evil. The thing is how to use it effectively, something I don't feel that we are doing.

I read that some newbie developer on some other project team messed up the CVS. I hope we don't end up having that problem. Then again, I feel if someone does not want to learn version control, they should not be working on a project, because it is something that has to be done.

Ego - why developers need it.

Sometimes people make out developer egos to be the big evil in a software project. They worry about things like the quality of the work and give harsh critics to developers of their contributions, be it code, documentation, music or artwork. Sometimes a person may want to work on a project, but feel that no matter what they do it is not good enough to get on any project and that they will not be recognized for what they contribute. Many of these people just give up, feeling that the lead developer will not be happy with their work no matter what they do.
They feel they have just wasted all that time working on things that will not be used for the project. I know, because I have been there along with several other people. It was one of the things that motivated me to start my own project rather than try to work on some one else's project.
I know that a lot of projects wish they had more people developing on the project, but at the same time have such high expectations for the quality of contributions that they do not find what they are looking for. Wograld is more of an entry level project. The art and code needed is pretty simple. Just a semester of C or the equivalent experience is all that is needed for programming. For art you just need to be able to use a simple editor like the gimp. A lot of the artwork is simply editing some sprites so they look better. The code also has a lot that is fairly simplistic. The time consuming part of the code is getting up to speed on the current code base and what it does, and then making some modifications. That is much easier than trying to write the game from scratch.
I think too much critic can turn otherwise good developers away from a project. Many people have their self-confidence sabotaged at work. They do not need more of this when they come home to do a hobby project. I believe developers should receive a lot of praise for the things they do right. It encourages them to work harder on the project, putting in more time and effort and producing more results.

Maps and hunting down bugs.

I finally got the lead programmer to do some work on the project again. Maybe it was because I took away his big bag of chips and soda pop, as well as two certain people being away for a week. Anyway, we finally got the major crash bug fixed. You can now walk around on the scorn map and not crash just because you try to enter places like the scorn school. I heard those areas were never finished even in the original crossfire. I also started working on the graphics again. I have completed an undead lady from four different directions with two frames each to replace the same 8 frames that all crossfire characters have. I also did a few terrain tiles. Map changes are still tedious and the map editor could use some work to fully display the new tiles. It would be nice to have some more help on the project, but I really only need someone who is dedicated since the project requires a lot of getting up to speed, figuring out how the code and maps work etc. Unlike the artwork, the code seems to take a lot of getting up to speed on it, rather than just making things of a certain size and copying them in, and then running some scripts. The directories are still the crossfire directories. It should really have separate directories for wograld. You also have to run the server as root, otherwise it will not have the permission to write to certain folders and you will not be able to save your characters or maps.
The reason the map and editor is so critical to fix, is because I need it working so I can see how my new terrain tiles look before putting them in the game. Not that I have not already done some of this work in the gimp. Also, Wograld is not crossfire. I want it to be a completely different game with different areas and maps.
There are many things I would like to add such as wearable clothing, but I think it is important to get the basics down first, by that I mean things like the menus and maps not crashing when you teleport into them. For some reason, our lead programmer found a bug where if you walk into nevar, it crashes. There is also buffer overflow errors. I don't want to add tons of new features over that kind of serious buggy code.

C code and the overwhelmingness of large projects.

I remember the first time I looked at the wograld code. It was like reading Chinesee. Gradually, it has started to make more sense. I found all those c and h files to be overwhelming as well, seeing as there were so many of them. The lead developer somehow managed to change things so that it would do different things, but at the time, I just wanted to leave it to him because I couldn't see how I was going to figure out how to read it. I think that part of the reason there are not more good free software games is there is such a long time from the newbie who has never written a line of C code, to a good working game that does what you want. The intermediate steps can seem so tedious and painful, particularly when you don't know how to include libraries and it takes months to find a person who can answer a simple newbie question.

Once I found the resources, my learning of programming became much faster, and I was able to make headway where I had not made it before, and also to make better use of the resources I did have.

Some people think that programming and programming talent is like an inborn skill. Either you have it or you do not. I do not agree with those people.

Anyway, in case newbies in C programming have not found this resource, I will list this message board here since it has been a tremendous help in learning C programming.

http://cboard.cprogramming.com/
http://www.cprogramming.com/

Useless Slashdot Articule

Today I read a useless slashdot article. It was about developers and motivation. I thought it would be worth a look. Turns out, all the comments were completely useless. I don't know why that someone would ask that of the wonderful "community" The RTFM crowd is not a place to find motivation, its more like the community of do not even bother. No, they will not help you with your project. I don't know what it is about the mean nerd community, but they tend to enshrine the tenants of "how to ask smart questions" and other stuff like that, encouraging others to be discouraging. I saw quite a lot of reply s promoting obviously useless things like the over-advertised prescription drugs and giving up on the project (either temporarily or permanently).
Other communities are not like this. It seems that nerds have a lot of time to tell someone useless dis advice, and not enough time to actually program anything useful.
I wish now that I had not wasted my time reading that article. As if I don't have enough to deal with learning C then having to read something nice like that. For those who don't listen and like to waste time, here it is.
Slashdot Timewaster

Wograld History, not as easy as it seems.

One of the reasons I think I initially put off the website is because I wanted some kind of world lore that made sense for the game, I had this idea of four races and nine stupidities, but then I had really no back story. For instance, I wondered, why were the stupidities important to the populace? How did the four races come to exist in the world. Try as I might, I could not answer those questions. About a year or so ago, I seemed to have written up something about a tyrant who united all the races and that the nine stupidities were a bunch of vague principles that originally tied to common sayings in the realm, but solidified into a set of principles that were used to defeat the tyrant. As far as the races went, I knew that orcs and elves could become the other race, same with humans and undead, and that undead and elves were originally considered immortal while orcs and humans were mortal, whatever the heck that meant.

One thing I have realized that as I have gotten a more in depth view of history than what i had in school. I have come to realize, that people today do not really understand the past, or even how people of that time may have thought or seen the world. I often speculated especially about ancient magic and what it must have been like. Was religion and magic always so closely interwoven? Were the gods really demons? Were the demons really gods? Why did the mysteries disappear? People can only speculated based on the writings and art that they find, but so much would not have survived the ravages of time, particularly in hot and humid climates such as Africa and the Americas. Also, a lot was destroyed by war, with a new king or tyrant removing the face and symbols of his predecessors in order to make it so that he was the only history that ever existed, and that the past did not. People like to think that certain things are or were timeless, but was that truly so? I feel it is not enough to say that is always the way it has been, one can only go further back and farther away.

One thing about the setting of Wograld, after the tyrant king, people are on an upswing. It is not falling into a dark age where people forget how to do even basic tasks, but rather, suddenly can craft new weapons and armor that they could not before. There is an enhancement in the learning of combat techniques and magic.

But the new skills and powers are not without their detractors, in fact, after the tyrant, it is almost an uphill battle to learn new things, since the races of Wograld seem to be afraid of it. This is where the demons come into play. Demons are an idea that I had after thinking about what to do about the skill system. What if, in order to raise your skill caps, you had to summon demons and ask them to train you in various skills? Wouldn't that be neat. Typically people think of demons in games as either monsters to fight, or little familiar creatures for warlocks and summoners to use in combat. But I like the idea of a whole new take on that idea. (well, actually a very old idea)